May The 4th Be With You: The Jedi (5E)

Note from the Archmage: This document was somewhat rushed in order to be ready for May 4th. Any suggestions for revisions are more than welcome in the comments below; the class will be updated. 

—2017/07/14: Massive update has been released. See changelog below.—


Happy Star Wars Day! On this day of great esteem, when we celebrate the events that took place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, Dungeon Master’s Workshop has prepared a special presentation. Introducing a new player option: the Jedi.

The jedi is a mystic warrior who draws on the Force, a pervasive energy field that can be used to augment one’s physical capabilities as well as achieve discrete magical effects such as precognition and energy-based attacks. The jedi has three subclass options (“Paths”) that you may choose from: Consular, Guardian, and Sentinel. The Consular focuses on Force-based attacks, the Guardian on bolstering their martial abilities, and the Sentinel on using the Force to augment their various non-magical skills. A variety of Force powers are available to all jedi, regardless of which path they choose.

Simply click the image below to be taken to the PDF.

If you like what you see, please consider becoming a patron on our Patreon. This will help us post regular content for everyone’s enjoyment.


Mailing List

If you would like to receive e-mail notifications of new posts, feel free to subscribe to the Dungeon Master’s Workshop Newsletter below.


Changelog:

2017/07/14 — Massive overhaul of the class completed. Special thanks to our valued reader Matt Williams for his thoughtful and in-depth analysis of the class which guided several of the significant changes, and also to Damon K. for keeping us motivated to work on this. See below for a general summary of the changes.

— General:
—— Added Great Weapon Fighting to fighting style selections
—— Adjusted the level at which features such as Blindsense and Elusive were earned to not offer advanced access to major abilities
—— Removed Uncanny Dodge
— Force powers:
—— Reduced overall number of Force powers learned
—— Added the Finesse property to Lightsabres
—— Rolled all the Lightsabre improvements into a single power that costs Force points
—— Re-tooled the Twin Blades power so that it’s not objectively better than regular dual wielding
—— Rewrote the Clairvoyance power to make it worth taking
—— Eliminated Double Strike and Flurry of Strikes powers because they shat all over the action economy
—— Separated Telekinesis from Force Push and from the Force Wave power
—— Re-tooled several Force powers to allow for empowerment with additional Force points
— Archetypes:
—— Reduced the number of benefits from four to three and adjusted the levels at which they are earned
—— Revised several features so as not to take too heavily from the role of other classes (*cough* Guardian *cough*)
—— Various tweaks to make the different archetypes fit their theme better

38 thoughts on “May The 4th Be With You: The Jedi (5E)”

  1. Hi, one of the force powers as wisdom to AC but you already have unarmoured defence. Maybe this should be more like the shield spell and have a default boost to your AC or be based on level.

    1. Hi Steph,

      Thank you very much for commenting! You clearly did not forego training in your Investigate checks; that indeed does appear to be an oversight on our part. It shall be corrected in the revised version.

    1. Only thing is, I kinda don’t agree with the dueling fighting style. If not dual wielding, they always wield their lightsaber two handed (unless dueling also applies if you’re wielding a one handed weapon two handed?). I’m also aware that great weapon fighting doesn’t apply. Maybe you should create a new fighting style which reflects better their stance?

      1. Hi there, and thank you for commenting!

        In our experience, versatile weapons (such as longswords) do not interfere with the duelling fighting style. Duelling merely specifies that you have a weapon in one hand and no other weapons. In this way, the Duelling and Great Weapon Fighting fighting styles are complimentary if you’re using a longsword—the weapon that the lightsabre functions as. According to Jeremy Crawford, wielding a weapon in two hands negates the benefit of the Duelling fighting style. Duelling and Great Weapon Fighting are mutually exclusive (see below)… In fact, Great Weapon Fighting was included in the original draft of this document as a fighting style you could select, but somehow got edited out during one revision or another. As mentioned at the top of the article, there was a bit of a rush to get this released for May 4th, so mistakes were made.

        Speaking of being hurried for time, we also wanted to create a new fighting style for the lightsabre. It wasn’t feasible by the deadline, and the basic concept was rolled into the Potent Blade force power. When we do a revision of this class, we’ll be taking another look at this.

        We hope these answers were helpful to you. Your comments are appreciated, and we look forward to hearing more!

        -The Archmage

        * link to Duelling/GWF being mutually exclusive: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-july-2016

  2. (Sorry for posting again!) Just a few more points that I considered as I was reading:

    – Doesn’t Superior Resilience trait just completeley negates Force Body trait?
    – While Warrior Sage ability is good, maybe we should learn it sooner? It’s not THAT good to be considered a 18th level ability imo.
    – Battle Meditation is too costly for only half proficiency, why not full?
    – I should test it first, but I keep thinking that we have too few force points to spend. After depleting it, the Jedi simply becomes a lesser version of a monk. But as I said, maybe I should test it first.

    1. Hi there,

      Thank you very much for commenting. You asked some pretty good questions.

      The first and foremost thing that I should do is re-emphasize that this has not been playtested. The class was put together based on our idea of how things should balance out. If playtesting reveals flaws, then we will certainly be making revisions (several are already in the mix).

      Now, on to your specific questions.

      The Superior Resilience trait affects saving throws, meanwhile the Force Body trait affects ability checks that deal with your physical attributes (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution). In other words, if you had to roll a Wisdom saving throw against a mind affecting spell such as command, you would benefit from Superior Resilience. Meanwhile, if you had to make an Athletics check and you hadn’t gained proficiency in that skill at some point, having the Force Body trait would allow you to add half your proficiency bonus to the check. Also, Force Body allows you to add half your proficiency bonus to your initiative, which is a Dexterity-based check. Quite handy.

      In respect of the Warrior Sage trait, it’s already the 18th-level option for the eldritch knight. As the Paths ability progression follows that of the fighter’s archetypes, we did not want to invalidate the eldritch knight choice by offering it earlier than they would obtain it. This goes back to how part of homebrewing involves not making the new option invalidate other player options (which was, admittedly, hard to do with a jedi class, since they are supposed to be that powerful lore-wise).

      Battle Meditation was a very difficult one to balance. We are open to either increasing it to the full proficiency bonus, or making it only cost 1 force point. If your playtest illuminates you to a way that it might work better, we’d be very happy to hear about it.

      The number of force points matches a monk’s ki points and a sorcerer’s sorcery points, except that you can get them at 1st level (because without force powers you wouldn’t be a jedi). We are hesitant to increase the number of force points, but we may be open to increasing the number of force powers (and coming up with some more cheap(er) ones that you can use).

      Hopefully these answers were helpful to you. Again, thank you very much for commenting; it is always great to get engagement from the community on our material!

      -The Archmage

        1. Well, fortunately for you the updated version is up, so you can playtest it with a more balanced version of the class.

  3. Awesome work up. i enjoyed seeing this and my players where also quite happy as well. But the questions came up. How do you construct a lightsaber and Are you going to work up a Sith Class?

    1. Hi, and thank you for commenting!

      To answer your questions: lightsabres were slightly re-conceived in D&D terms for this class. They’re not constructed; rather, they are conjured. You can find information on how they are summoned in the Force Powers section. In regards to a Sith class: it was our intention to release a Sith option (another Path) today, on Revenge of the Sixth, but time constraints made it impossible. The elements of the dark side of the Force are there (such as the Smite force power), and one could easily reflavour the existing Paths with Sith versions (Marauder in place of Guardian; Assassin in place of Sentinel; and Lord in place of Consular).

      Hopefully this information has been of assistance. Thank you again for your comment; we always love to hear from our readers.

      -The Archmage

  4. I really wanted to like this. It has some good stuff in there. But it needs a lot of work to not just be a replacement for other classes, like monk or fighter.

    Okay, why is lightsaber a power you have to take? That’s clumsy. All the classes have it, just include it in the main class description and reduce the force abilities by one. Way less clumsy. That said, capping how many points you can spend on a power is a good balance mechanic. A little awkward for the system, but playable. Force powers coming back with the same mechanic as ki points fits as well. (If you were going to shave the IP elements off, I’d turn this class into a ki-warrior or monk alternative of sorts and just rename them ki points. Have you thought about a cross classing note where monk and jedi levels stack for purpose of determining force/ki points as one large pool, kinda like spell slots? I think there’s a bit too much overlap between monk and jedi to cross them effectively, but it’s a thought.)

    Unarmed Defense makes sense. Fighting style when great weapon is added in should be fine.

    Force strike. Is this capped by the force point expenditure, or can my 20th level jedi drop all 20 points into one big attack? I don’t know, I get that it’s smite like a paladin gets, but I’d put a * by it as something that might need to get dropped. Jedi is pretty powerful without it.

    Deflect missiles is both super apt for a Jedi, and creates crossover issues with monk again. It does simply fit really well, so it’s probably okay to leave.

    Get to the Jedi paths later…

    Ability score. Sure.

    Extra attack. Sure.

    Evasion and Uncanny dodge at the same level? And they get evasion earlier than monk or rogue. Come on. And they get it the same level as uncanny dodge? Which is only a level after a rogue gets it? Shift one or the other to a Jedi path and bump another ability off. Maybe evasion as the 7th level sentinel ability?

    Force body. Not as good as Jack of All Trades, just like remarkable athlete. At least you don’t get this before a fighter champion I don’t think it should be in the base abilities of the class. Maybe shuffle it around and put it into Councilor of Guardian to replace an ability there? I’m on the fence. I wouldn’t bane a class for this one where it is, but I would give it the stink eye, that’s for sure.

    Improved Force Strike. Maybe just up the base damage of the lightsaber to a d10, I think that would be more in line.

    Blindesense? A level sooner than a rogue? No. Maybe shift it to a force power, put it at level 15 access like a Warlock’s Witch Sight. I’d give them some immunity to fear or charm instead. Thematically fits and softens all the good powers they get with something thematic and not instant beat of invis.

    Superior Resilience. Another stolen monk ability, but it again seems like a good fit. Maybe rename it? Force Resilience?

    Elusive sooner than a rogue? Again? Okay, it’s pretty thematic to a Jedi, so I’m going to try not to gripe too much. Just maybe put a * by it for further review.

    Jedi Master. Capstone of the Monk class. It’s really useful and no more potent than the monk ability. Maybe think of something a bit more unique? They are luminous beings after all…

    The Jedi Paths.
    Okay, Councillor.
    Start with borrowing from Bard. Well, okay. They are supposed to be diplomats and healers as well, maybe add persuasion and medicine to the list? Especially since they don’t get access to medicine at all.

    Potent Force. Too much. Drop it. Maybe drop all the Path’s level 7 abilities. They have more than enough juice as is.

    Tranquility is kinda neat. Very good choice for a path of peace type character. Maybe put it to a short rest to activate? But they can’t meditate to regain force at the same time? I don’t know, this is something I would need to see actually play out to get a good feel for it.

    Augmented force? Okay, but maybe limit it to once per short/long rest? Also might see a build where the power is useless, as the player takes none of the spell based force powers.

    Unyielding force. What? Bad fit for the Path. Something else? I don’t know what I would put in it’s place.

    The Guardian. Wow. Wow almost to the point of “why would I play a fighter when I can play this?” Okay, let’s get started.

    Improved crit range right out of the gate. This is something pretty cool and pretty exclusive to fighter champion. How about something reasonable like some proficiency bonuses in physical skills? Sure, it’s really restrictive, but the lightsaber as you have written up is able to pump out a lot of dice of damage, and this increases the chance to double them. If someone wants to pay for the ability with a few levels dip into fighter, fine. But to just give something this potent to them right off, and give them battle master abilities as well? Nope.

    It’s not as good as battle master, but it’s pretty damn good. Yes, they fit the jedi idea, cool things to do with the lightsaber, but that’s what taking the feat is for. Drop the level 7 ability here too.

    Additional fighting style? Sure, why not. This is already a champion +.

    Superior critical? See above. For a fix, maybe have improved critical here.

    Warrior Sage: okay, sure. Again, potential to lose power if you take the wrong force powers though.

    Guardians needs to be redone.

    Sentinel

    Expertise. Sure. But, really, guardian should just get some skill profs at 3rd level.

    Force versatility. Kinda dull. Useful though, especially when you need thief tools. Maybe keep it but at another level, as dropping the 7th level ability seems a good fix.

    Reliable talent. Okay, a little dip into rogue. I can dig it.

    Force presence: neat redo of the fae patron ability. I like this one, it’s has some utility good fit.

    I’ll take a harder look at the force powers later, but I’m sure I’ll have comments.

    I’d love a playable Jedi. Especially one I don’t have to write up myself. Not that I’m ever on that side of the cardboard curtain for 5e. *sigh*

    Anyway, I hope I dished out more insight than annoyance.

  5. Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, for a future game. Just wondering though, the Quick Build emphasizes Dex and Wis, but the Lightsabre is treated as a Longsword (not a finesse weapon) was this an intentional choice to balance the damage? Since later on one can acquire the improved lightsabre later swapping out for superior then the ultimate boosts.

    Additionally small thing I noticed, for Mighty Push, telekinesis doesn’t have any material components.

    Would love to see a finalized version when it’s ready since this ended up being rushed!

    1. Hi Sven,

      Thank you very much for commenting!

      You are correct on both accounts. In the rush to complete this in time for May 4th, we missed that we had forgotten to specify that the lightsabre is a finesse weapon, and also did not have time to double check whether the telekinesis spell had any material components that would warrant the inclusion of that extra specification.

      We’re glad to hear that you are eagerly awaiting the revised version of this class. In order to make sure that you don’t miss new releases, we recommend subscribing above.

      – The Archmage

  6. Okay, review part two. Force Powers.
    In general, you get a lot of these combined with all of the other powers that the Jedi gives. Compared to warlock invocations, which these powers resemble, the jedi ultimately gets 13 compared to the warlock’s 8. While warlock does get some magic spells, the Jedi is loaded down with a mix of monk and rogue abilities, and potentially fighter abilities to boot. So just to start with, this is a LOT of powers. And while fueled by force points, those come back with a short rest, so that doesn’t seem too much of a limitation.

    Art of movement: how long does it last? One check, right? Doesn’t seems out of proportions.

    Battle Meditation: It lasts concentration, but most concentration spells have a time limit as well. Might want to include a recharge as well. Especially if the above comment on adding the full prof bonus is taken.

    Clairvoyance. Okay. It burns force points, which I guess is a limit. Maybe instead one use with a recharge on a short/long rest.

    Double Strike: That’s kinda the power of a high level guardian. It can also be accomplished with two weapon fighting.

    Flurry of Strikes has the same issue as Double Strike. Doubling bonus action attacks. I think both this and double strike are too much. They play fast and loose with the action economy and progress attacks per round faster than any other class at the cost of the bonus action. At 9th level, you have four attacks at the cost of a bonus action, no built in str penalty. It’d almost be better to just make a power to grab a third attack with an attack action with a 12th level requirement.

    Force Jump is right in line with the warlock. This seems right.

    Force Push is two powers in one. Move object and, well, force push. I’d split them out. Move Object, either as just mage hand at will, and rename Improved Force Push to Improved Move Object. Turn Thunderwave into force push at the 2 FP cost. Maybe include the option to spend more to increase it’s effective caster level?

    Force Shroud. Yeah, it would probably be more accurate to past editions to allow you to use the power to hide under direct observation. But invisibility is probably the easier and cleaner way to do this.

    Force Speed: Costs force point, uses a concentration slot. Okay. Potent, but probably not out of line. I want to suggest using a rest limit instead of FP’s, but I’d want to play test that difference.

    Healing: paladin lay on hands? It’s thematic. Might want to put a level entry onto it, like 3 or so.

    Improved light saber. I don’t like any of these powers. Giving a magic weapon that gets all the way up to +3? I think that’s way too powerful. I had a similar issue with artificer’s magic items, but at least those are utility items and not magic weapons. I’d rather see a some options for a few custom magic lightsabers and notes on magic lightsabers you might find on your journeys. Make notes about jedi enchanting their own lightsabers for the cost of gold and time like any other caster.

    Lightsaber: just make it a built in class ability.

    Mass Smite: Okay. It’s force lightning powered up. Might think about allowing a higher spell level for more FP.

    Mighty Push: See Force Push above.

    Potent Blade: It’s life drinker but Wisdom not Charisma. Makes sense.

    Read Thoughts: Ahh, okay. It’s fits what Jedi do. But I’d split suggestion off into another power. That just does not match how we see it used.

    Saber Throw: same range as a dart. That seems like it’s in line. Especially with the force point cost.

    Smite: Okay, it’s force lightning. Again, might consider allowing a higher spell level for more FP. Would need to play test that.

    Superior Lightsaber: see above.

    Twin Blades: Okay. Maybe make both of the saber’s function like short swords in that case. Or the off hand a short sword. But this class already has a weird action economy with flurry of strikes. Which is simply the better way to use your bonus action. Especially since you don’t need the fighting style and feat to really fuel the extra attacks effectiveness with flurry of strikes. I mean, the only thing you miss out on would be the +1 AC, but you don’t need to spend a feat and a fighting style. Again, this is just more reason to drop flurry of strikes.

    Ultimate lightsaber: see above.

    Suggestions for powers:
    Language knowledge. A power that force wielders often have. Maybe even put a limitation on it, that you need to “learn” the language from another person or something.
    Air Bottle: No need to breathe. Either as a high level power or something that has a limited duration and fueled by FP.
    If you keep the guardian with the weapon master powers, better access to those powers? Might be too much, but it feels like it would be a good fit. Or if the level seven power is dropped, access to the Martial Adapt feat (guardians only) with an upgrade power.
    More perception and understanding boosting powers?

    Those are my suggestions.

    1. Matt,

      We really cannot thank you enough for taking the time to write all this out. Your critiques are thoughtful, rational, and speak to your passion for the subject. We are absolutely thrilled that you took the time to leave such comprehensive comments, and we have certainly marked them for consideration as we revise the class.

      Thank you again, and we hope to have you back any time.

      – The Archmage

  7. Hi, I was just checking to see if there had been any headway on the revised version of this beautiful class and if so, where might I get my eager little hands on it? Oh, I also noticed in maneuvers for the guardian path that although you gain maneuvers @ 7thlvl, you gain an additional maneuver @ 7th, 10th, and 15th lvl. Does that mean you gain a third @ 7th or is it just a typo or something?

    1. Hi Damon,

      Thank you for your comment. We really appreciate your enthusiasm!

      Revisions for the Jedi class are in the works. We are working with a tentative release date of June 4th (one month after the original release) for the revisions.

      We encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter to get regular updates on our content.

      Best!

      – The Archmage

    1. Hi Wesley,

      Thanks for your comment. While there have been several homebrews of the Jedi as a monk subclass (such as the one that you linked there, which is not an official supplement but a fan-made submission to an open-source website), we felt the Jedi concept merited nothing less than their own class and so we created this one.

      Whichever one you use is up to you, though there is no official version.

      Best

      – The Archmage

  8. I thought for the lightsaber it would be a power in itself. That the blade was an extension of the user. A psionic blade if you will, cause can’t make lasers in dnd last time I played.

  9. hey, i love this Jedi class, infact my dm just recently allowed me to take it, and is running a campaign that involves alot of force users

    sofar its running well but i found something very strange, because force power useage is gated behind, both level requirements for some force powers, and a limit on the maximum amount of force points you can use on a power, i found that there are weird situations in which you can take force powers, that you literally are not allowed to use, because they cost too many force points at the time you can take them, for example, force smite allows you to cast lightning bolt, you can take it right away, but it costs 4 force points, meaning you literally cant use it untill level 9, this is fine, its gated only by force point limitation, however mass smite, has a specific requirement that you have to have force smite and be 11th level to take it, implying that you should be able to use it at level 11, but because of its cost of 6, you actually cant use it untill level 17

    id drop level requirment on force powers alltogether since your already gateing them by maximum force points, or atleast put a level requirement on them that is actually set at the point in which you might be able to use them (those two particular powers might benifit from a 1 force point drop)

    my only other complaint is that, because i took certian powers at level 1 (healing and telekinesis), i had no use for force points whatsoever until level 3(deflect missiles happens then), perhaps there should be a built in nonpower useage for force points at level 1

    other notes:
    clairvoyance requires a force point, but also has a limitation on the number of uses based on wisdom modifier, it should loose one of these qualities, probably the wis mod one as it is the only power with this limitation, making it stand out as odd, and your number of force points already determines how many times you can use it (especially at lower levels where it will be most significant), and there is no ability i believe in any of the official books that has both a pool cost and limit on uses

    saber throw maybe shouldn’t have a force point requirement, all it does is allow you to make an admittedly rather short ranged attack, and it takes up a valuable force power slot, alternatively perhaps this is a good candidate for a built in level 1 or 2 force point use, just merge the ability with the base lightsaber power, which is already required by everyone to take, and it removes the possibly of having absolutely no use for force points at such levels

    Psychometry has a level requirement of 17, this seems rather high to me, it is very similar to an ability in the unearthed arcana’s mystic (specificly the awakened archetypes psionic investigation) which is granted at level 3, it is also the only power that has a level requirement so high, and one of only 2 powers that has a requirement that isnt 11 (the other is force jump, which also requires you to be level 9 and to have the art of movement)

    finally i would also like to see a power/ability that allows you to hide as a bonus action, but thats just a personal preference

    conclusion, its a good class, but has a few small problems, i am enjoying playing it reguardless

    1. Thank you for commenting, Kreek! We’re glad to hear that you are enjoying the class and cannot thank you enough for taking the time to write your thoughts. Playtesting is an integral part of making balanced material, and we can only perfect what we design with the help of playtesters like yourself.

      You raised some excellent points, particularly the incongruity between the level and Force point requirements. The intention was that the Force point requirement should guide when you get access to certain Force powers, and the level requirement on some Force powers was part of our original design to ensure that players did not simply take game-breaking options too early. We will look at revising the level requirements (and if they’re necessary) in the next week or so.

      As a particular note, Psychometry is just a renamed version of the 17th-level Knowledge domain ability for clerics. The UA psion is, frankly, broken. Just like every time WoTC does psionics. We intentionally avoided drawing elements of that class into this one to avoid falling down that rabbit hole, and we don’t foresee ourselves borrowing inspiration from the class in the future.

      Thanks again for your suggestions. We’ll be looking into them soon.

      1. while i have read the entire phb at one point, i admit i havent ever had the inspriation to play a knowledge domain cleric, so im not really familiar with its powers, i didnt relize that that one was a reskin as it just seemed so much like the similar psionic power, which i am familiar with, thats what i assumed it was inspired by, thanks for the correction there, i do hereby rescind my original objection

        thanks for listening and responding to my comments and suggestions, and i look forward to seeing where you take this class, as, even with the minor flaws, i still believe this is the best version of a jedi class, that i have found

  10. I like the revised version.

    I’m a little confused about the maximum weight you can lift with telekinesis though. The max stays 5 pounds from level 1 to 4. Then it changes to 5, 10, 15 and 20 pounds/level depending on your level. So at level 19 it would be 285 pounds and level 20: 400 pounds. Is that correct?
    Maybe something like the total weight you can lift is increased by 5 pounds/level (level 1-4), then by 10 pounds/level (level 5-9), 15 pounds/level (level 10-14) and 20 pounds/level (level 15-20). The progression would be a little bit smoother.
    In either case, the use of force points could also be interesting for this power. Each point spent could increases the maximum by the weight you would normally lift without spending points. At higher level, it may lead to maximum weight higher than the telekinesis spell, but since this power only affects object and you will have to spend a lot of resources, I think it’s fine. Also, never forget that Yoda was able to lift a X-wing out of a swamp. So a level 20 jedi master should be able to lift something significant.

    Also is there a reason why the WIS modifier is not taken into account to determine the force points pool?

  11. This is a great class and well thought out. It is the best and most complete homebrewed class I have seen. I like how the sub-classes were adapted from Knights of the Old Republic.
    I’m about to playtest the Jedi in a campaign, so these are my initial thoughts about the class. Some of these ideas are lore based, some are “this seems logical” while others are “this sounds cool.” I haven’t taken game balance into account as I am still too new to 5e have a really well informed opinion. As such I’m just going to present everything and you can pick out and adapt anything that you like.

    Consular focuses on being specialized in order to accomplish tasks. In KotOR they were the most skilled, often hackers and tech people- futuristic rogues. To fit that theme and to make up for the lack of bonuses to combat and Force Powers, you could offer them the opportunity to learn one new skill or thieves’ tools at level 3 when they gain expertise. Having a dexterity based ability like thieves’ tools as an option would give players a greater incentive to choose the subclass.

    In the books Jedi used a focus crystal, a kyber, to focus the energy into a beam. It required attunement to the user and was often connected to the force. Similar to an arcane focus but it had only specific uses. It was also responsible for the blade’s color. If the DM wanted it could be a built in excuse to require quests if a player wanted to build a second lightsaber or even to multiclass into being a Jedi.

    Use of a lightsaber (at least against another lightsaber) is very similar to the use of a rapier, even down to size and weight. A rapier is also stated about the same as a lightsaber without additional Force powers added. I think that A Jedi’s weapon proficiencies should be expanded to include rapiers. That gives them a practical alternative to a lightsaber, which becomes important if you make focus crystals a requirement for lightsabers.

    Most classes confer a tool, instrument, or language if you choose it at first level. I think that offering a language or a tool would be good for character background reasons. It would also be practical as a traveling Jedi needs some way to support himself. (I think that some instruments would also fit, but I have trouble seeing most Jedi playing lively local favorites or tuning bagpipes….)

    If you wanted to include cantrips as a force power or allow the player to pick one, then Guidance, Resistance, Spare the Dying, Mage Hand, Thaumaturgy, and Minor Illusion would be good options. Though it might be good to point out that any visual or audio effects produced by these sounds are actually only in the observer’s minds.

    For Force Push to be like the movies, it should be noted that the mage hand is invisible and that the Thunderwave doesn’t actually produce noise.

    Adding alignment prerequisites or restriction to force abilities might be interesting.
    Calm Emotion, Command, Levitate, Confusion and Friend could all be useful spells which fit flavor wise. I’m sure that there are others. As a Force power I might make some of them alignment based and allow the player to pick two.

    I like the fact that other people have already covered some of the ideas I had, including making the light sabers finesse weapons. This is a great class and I can’t wait to see the further refinements you are discussing.

  12. Trott, I think that the Wisdom modifier wasn’t used to determine the number of force points used in order to preserve game balance. However, if they wanted they could experiment with tying the wisdom modifier to the number of force powers a player could know + 1/2 their Jedi level rounded down. That wouldn’t affect things too much overall and would make wisdom more important.

    As far as background justification, in the StarWars Universe, Force use was almost as much about inborn capability as it was about training or mental abilities. That is why Anakin was stronger then some more experienced Jedi and why a crazed Sith might grow in force abilities even though he’s losing his mind.

  13. Since I can’t delete or edit my first comment, let me say that it turns out that I had this older version of the class when I wrote my last two replies:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/346109807541092363/346112007692615680/Jedi.pdf
    As such please ignore what I said about the Force Push power, the focus crystal, and adding skills to the consular path. Also, great work on the class and the revisions.

    However I would still suggest adding thieves’ tools as an option for the consular path, conferring rapier proficiency and giving either the choice of a language or a tool skill when taking the class at first level. It might be good to mention that a knowledge of thieves’ tools is necessary to use telekinesis to pick locks and disarm traps.
    Jedi abilities would stack well with many rogue traits, however the mentalities are almost opposites. As a way to keep multiclassing into rogue from becoming too convenient of a way to misuse Jedi abilities, I would suggest something that would make back stabbing more difficult. You could add that the faint light and sound of an activated lightsaber causes disadvantage on stealth checks.
    If multiclass requirements are going to be included as part of the class, then I would suggest going with the monk requirements, 13 dexterity and 13 wisdom.

    I would also still suggest adding calm emotion as an ability. It’s used in one of the character examples of a Jedi you have in the previous document and it’s often thought of as one of the Jedi’s signature abilities. You could group it with some combination of Confusion, Zone of Truth or Friend under the same force power to make it worth the force power slot. “Influence over the weak-minded” or something like that. Maybe use one force point per spell level. Other options could include modify memory and Animal Friendship.

    Some other groups of spell which could fit the genre are:
    Force Guidance:
    Sending, Dream, Beacon of Hope, Guidance, Resistance
    With Sending, Guidance and Resistance being free & Dream and Beacon of Hope costing points.
    Diversion of Focus:
    Minor Illusion, Enthrall & Pass without a Trace used only on non-constructs.

    & Mind Over Matter:
    Levitate, Unseen servant, Feather Fall

    Visions:
    Clairvoyance, Scrying, Augury (no components needed, and the DM gives an impression instead of a simple yes or no).

    and lastly True Seeing.

    I’ll save any other ideas until after I finish play-testing the class.

    1. Thanks for your comment!

      I am my own proof-reader, and sometimes I miss things. My apologies. Hopefully it doesn’t ruin all 5,000 other words in the document. 🙂

      Best,
      – the Archmage

  14. I’m glad my comments helped. I really did mean to re-read and review again sooner, but, well, life. Anyway, here’s my impressions of the revised version.

    I still think lightsaber should just be a class ability, and start with two force powers. I don’t know if it would look cleaner, but since all Jedi automatically have it and can’t trade it out, it might as well just be a class ability.

    I was gonna ask if deflect missile ought to require a lightsaber being out, until I recalled Vader in cloud city just giving Han the hand when he shot at him. No lightsaber needed, just need to be a force using bad ass.

    Force Body, that seems really apt.

    Improved critical, I was a little ehh on, but the more I think about it, the more that really fits with Jedi and their lightsaber damage. When they get in a good hit, off come limbs.

    Force resilience was another one that seemed to stick out, but since it’s just like Monk, that doesn’t seem out of sorts. Jedi are laser sword wielding monks at the end of the day.

    Elusive and Superior Resilience, I think I’d want to see how they act in the wild before I’d know for sure. They seem right for the class, are high level to get, are potent (which is fair for high level). Negating crits just seems really potent. Maybe fuel it with force points as a reaction? Maybe? Like I said, I need to see that in the wild to know. And elusive is just really cool, but since it doesn’t totally shut down rogue sneak attack, it should be cool. There’s just synergies that I might not be seeing. I’d want to hand that to a power gamer and ask what they can do with it, and as long as it’s not too bonkers, cool.

    I like Counselor. Skilled, armored with Serenity, potent force powers. Coolio.

    Guardian I like too. It’s much more focused. They can smite on one attack every turn. So once per turn your saber is doing up to d12 + 2d8? It is locked to your turn as opposed to the rogue sneak attack A turn, so that’s good. Melee instead of ranged, but kind in line with cantrip damage. Not as high a range as paladin smite, much less rogue sneak. But no prereq to trigger. It makes me scratch my chin, and want to see a guardian on the table. Opening up the crit range seems like a good fit, even if it borrows from Champion. You don’t dig too far into their cool. Warrior Sage finishes them out with a spell and attack, cool. Guides a little of your powers choice, as if you don’t take a casting force power, this isn’t really useful. That’s my only though on it though. (As I read through the Force powers, I suddenly noted that it’s “cast a force power” and not casting a spell from among your force powers, so that is more flexible than I thought. Maybe change the wording to “use a Force Power”? That might just be my confusion though…) I like Guardian.

    Sentinel. I like the synergy between Force Versatility and Reliable Talent. Makes it stand out from the sage-like Counselor to the adaptive Sentinel. Force presence is expensive but neat. Like the warlock ability but a bigger bubble and longer lasting. Sentinel seems a little odd man out, and might end up being the “weakest” choice, but there is some cool stuff there too, especially if that’s your build. Being able to gain the skill needed at the time and make checks reliably alone makes it a good skill money choice. Might be out the rogue or bard on that, but the rogue and bard are not getting other toes stepped on in the process. Again, I like it.

    Powers
    Art of movement: is that for a single check? Next check? Made during a check? It’s overly nit picky, but I just want to make sure it’s meant to apply to a check being currently made.

    Battle Meditation: I like it, its powerful, but I like it. Does that bonus stack with theirs? So Lando, the charming bard, is firing his hand crossbow at that pesky bounty hunter ranger, with his sickly high AC (who takes heavy armor prof as a ranger??), does your prof bonus add on top of the one already there? Has it been play tested? Did things get too wacky with it? With both an action and points, I wouldn’t think so.

    Clairvoyance: neat. Works a bit like the shield spell mechanically, while limiting uses per day (as to let it loose without that would be madness). I like it.

    Force Blade: I like it. Grants a steady power up that isn’t always there, but with Force points returning with a short rest, it’s not an empty power, max bonus is +3, lasts for a fight (few fights go past a minute after all). Yeah, I can dig it.

    Force Celerity: little bit of monk, little bit of rogue. Okay.

    Force Choke: I like the power up in the ability, that moves it to the TK spell at 13th level. Not being able to breath is what the power does, and is pretty harsh. Both give a round by round out (new save or continued contest). Potent, but not overly so. Especially at force point costs.

    Force Jump: I’ve always liked that power, level and other powers as gates seems right for an at will low level spell.

    Force Push: that’s a lot of damage for a first level spell. It compared well with chromatic orb, but that doesn’t do force damage, and dishes out at d8’s. But still is 3d8. (That’s a really nice spell…) While it does have 3 times the range, I don’t know if that equates to a step up in die type since the other 3d10 spell is inflict wounds, and it’s touch. My musings, and I would take this power, hands down, almost certainly at first level.

    Force Shroud: limited one turn invis. I remember this spell from previous editions. Vanish was always fun. Invis remains the easiest choice to replicating the power.

    Force Smite: caps at level 5, 6 if you’re a counselor. That seems solid.

    Force Speed: Haste on self for 4 FP, ok.

    Force Wave: Another power we see, especially in the bad ass Old Republic trailer. I like it.

    Healing: like a paladin, costs an option to grab. Makes sense in expand lore. Cool.

    Lightsaber: still think it should just be rolled into a class ability. Your call, not like it can’t be found and used just fine as is.

    Mass Smite: Chain lightning is fun.

    Powerful Blade: like thirsty blade. Makes sense.

    Psychometry: I like it.

    Read Thoughts: Still feels like it should be two separate powers, but it’s nice that both come in one package.

    Saber Throw: cool, can it be used with both attacks in a turn? Is damage as per two handed wielding or one?

    Telekenesis: I like it. Another power I’d be taking right away. I like how it grows as you do, gains both on the threshold and the multiplied amount.

    Twin Blades: Cool, I like that manifestation of it. Opens up to two weapon fighting with your class ability without going crazy on it.

    All in all I really like the changes. If given a chance I’d play one and not feel like a munchkin, and would let someone give one a spin at my own games. Might still require some little adjustments as it hits the table, but nothing too cray-cray from the looks of things. Thanks guys!

    1. Once again, you’ve delivered a comprehensive and critical review that really demonstrates a clear understanding and appreciation for the class. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the care and effort you put into this.

      You’ve really covered the big considerations I had with the revision, and also the biggest obstacle that we have right now: playtesting. Unlike Wizards of the Coast, we don’t have thousands of players eager to try out new character options we come up with, and so our playtesting process is a bit longer and not as robust. Thus far, I’ve only had three players who are not from my table give me feedback about how the class plays for them. The rest of the balancing is me writing pages full of calculations for damage averages compared to what other classes generally achieve. This is why I have been making a special effort of hunting down the orphan links of the class over the pas while and ensuring that people know where the full article can be found so that they can join the conversation on what works and what doesn’t work.

      That’s currently where things like Force Push and the Guardian’s “smite” ability are; as balanced as I can get based on the game’s math, but possibly imbalanced in practice. I can only improve them if I get more feedback. So, once again, thank you for taking such time and effort to do so. It really helps.

      Best,
      – the Archmage

      1. Oh I get that, it can be hard to get any good play test on stuff. I have some friends who are great at eyeballing stats for 3.x and it’s lineage of games, but they haven’t really made the jump to 5e yet. The nice thing is that you don’t need quite as much playtest if you’re willing to reverse engineer the existing system a little. compare and contrast against what has been playtested. Not that it negates the need to put them on the table and see what happens, but it helps.

        If I get a chance to have someone take it for a spin, or give it a spin myself, I’ll try and give what feedback I can.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *